Serious Bible students, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Orthodox... How would you explain Hebrews 5:7-10?

Edit:

It is one thing to be obedient in heaven where pain, hunger and thirst is non-existent.

It is easy to be faithful when everything is going your way and all you experience are Jehovah's blessings.

This was Satan's charge against Job.

We see many 'faithful' people who stop serving God because of a perceived act of God, such as losing a love one after asking God to save this one's life.

Jesus learned obedience in the fact that he had to know suffering and pain, not the stubbing of a toe, but the physical pain of hanging on a torture stake. The emotional pain of being executed for blasphemy, the worst charge one whose whole life was dedicated to God could be charged with. An innocent man being put to death for a crime he did not comment, because it was God's will and not his own.

Yes he proved blameless and sinless even to death, in learning what real obedience to his God and Father meant.

'crosseyed' where did I get this from? God's Word.

Who was behind the torture and testing of Jesus?

(Luke 4:13) 13 So the Devil, having finished all the temptation, departed from him until another convenient time.

Whose will were the pharisees doing?

(John 8:38) . . .but you do the things you have heard from your father.” . . . 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.

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(Hebrews 5:7-10) 7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.

I've never had a trinitarian who could explain this to me.

According to the trinity

God (aka Jesus) had to learn obedience from Satan.

Why would God have to learn anything, especially obedience.

Who has God to be obedient to?

God after learning obedience then appointed himself 'High Priest' to act as a go between himself and himself and mankind.

The truth is that Jesus always remain faithful to God, even while being tested and persecuted by Satan.

(John 15:8-10) 8 My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10 If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love.

This proves that Adam could have remained faithful in the Garden.

As a reward for Jesus' faithfulness, his God and Father elevated him to the position of High Priest; where he serves as a intermediary between God and his disciples.

To gain salvation we must use the avenue chosen by God to worship Him in the way He approves.

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It is so ridicules that Jesus wasn’t God while he was here on earth and that’s the reasoning of the trinity believers! People should read what the write! God is “not” physical he’s a spirit; Jesus was physical while he was on the earth, not a spirit! When angels materialized physical bodies they were still a spirit with the ability to material physical bodies! This was not the case with Jesus; he was born with a physical body, he had no power to heal or to perform miracles until his Father’s Holy Spirit anointed him when he was baptized!

In the book of Acts we see that the power of the Holy Spirit was first given to 120 disciples in the form of fire, and then they received gifts of healing and speaking in different tongues!

There’s a belief (religion) that believes that speaking in tongues means to jump around spouting gibberish that no one can understand! They haven’t read that account all the way through, Peter said they were not drunk and that foreign Speaking Jews were amazed that they understood what was being said in their own language!

Man takes only what they want to believe and ignore the rest!(2 Timothy 4:3-4) For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.

Look at what is said here (Hebrews 9:24) For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, like in pattern to the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear before the face of God for us(AS)

Christ appears before the face of God!

After Jesus was resurrected what did the Apostle Peter say about Jesus’ position (1 Corinthians 11:3) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

God does “not” have a head over himself!

When you believe man’s lies who is the one behind these lies? (2 Corinthians 4:3, 4) If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Hebrews 5: 5, 6, 7, says:

"So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.”

As he also says in another place, 6 “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”

7 During his life on earth,* Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."

Jesus Obeyed Jehovah and sacrificed himself so that we might have hope & perhaps a place in God's new paradise or those few who go to heaven.

Hmmm I guess the point you're trying to make is that Jesus isn't God as it's a typical dumb Arian use of this scripture.

Here's a clue to understanding ..."DURING HIS TIME ON EARTH...."

...now if that don't speak truth to yer, yer ain't ever m

hi there

so reading your comments, the main thrust of your question is how he learnt obedience.

it states clearly he learnt it by the things he suffered.

why do you imagine that would be a problem for a christian? no sirree. no problemo.

ok i'm a gonna guess what your supposed problem is.

if jesus is god how can he learn obedience?

am i warm? did i hit the mark?

if so, then

as usual jws have not taken into account every description of jesus

search every scripture describing him and you find he is

man - mark 15:39, acts 2:22, 1 timothy 2:5

son of man - matthew 8:20, mark 9:9, luke 6:5

son of god - matthew 14:33, mark 1:1, john 11:27

god - mark 5:19-20, luke 8:39, john 20:28

so in this case you have simply made a case from the god description and ignored the man description.

but you cannot ignore he is a man and so learnt things.

this does not cancel any other scripture. all of them are true.

how did i do with my guess?

The Scriptures state: “In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.” (Heb. 5:7) Jesus offered supplications and petitions and maintained his faithfulness to God to the very end of his earthly life. As a result, Jehovah saved his beloved Son out of death and rewarded him with immortal life in heaven

As exemplified by Jesus Christ, obedience is often learned from the things suffered. (Read Hebrews 5:8, 9.) Before coming to earth, Jesus was obedient to his Father. However, doing his Father’s will on earth involved physical and mental suffering. Through obedience under extreme adversity, Jesus was “made perfect” for the new position God had in mind for him, that of being King and High Priest.

As High Priest, what sacrifice could Jesus offer that would completely cover the inherited sin of believing ones?

As he indicated when instituting the Memorial of his death, his own perfect human life was the sacrifice. (Read Hebrews 9:11, 12.) From the time of his baptism in 29 C.E., Jesus as High Priest submitted to tests and training until the time of his actual death. (Heb. 4:15; 5:7-10) After he was resurrected, he ascended to heaven and presented the value of his sacrifice to Jehovah himself. (Heb. 9:24) Thereafter, Jesus could plead with Jehovah on behalf of those exercising faith in his sacrifice and assist them to serve God with everlasting life in view. (Heb. 7:25) His sacrifice also served to validate the new covenant.—Heb. 8:6; 9:15.

JESUS AND JEHOVAH ARE DIFFERENT AND UN-EQUAL PERSONS-NOT TRINITY PERSONS~

It refers to Jesus's role as a high priest. He was offering his life as an obedient sacrifice and offering prayer and petition as a priest would offer prayer and petition. However, when Jesus prayed to be saved out of death (ie resurrected) he was not praying in a selfish way for himself, but praying that his sacrifice might be an acceptable one through which not only he, but fallen mankind, could be raised.

The reference to Melchizedek means that Jesus was, like Melchizedek, a true priest yet one who did not belong to the Old Testament Jewish priesthood descended from Aaron. It also refers to Jesus offering bread and wine at the last supper, as Melchizedek had once offered a sacrifice bread and wine (though, of course, what Jesus offered was greater than mere bread and wine - it was his Body and Blood). Furthermore, Melchizedek was not only a priest, but a king, so the kingship of Jesus is implied by his association with Melchizedek.

Hebrews 5:7-10? Try Hebrews 9 and watch them wriggle.

Edit: 5:7 is often mistranslated as saying Jesus was on earth (when Hebrews 8:4 infers he never was). It literally says "who in the days of the flesh of him", which means when he left his divine nature so that he could die. The first century Jews believed you could not die in the higher heavens, only the lower ones.

The Dead Sea scrolls mention Melchizedek as a divine being who will proclaim the day of atonement, and judge the resurrected. The first Christians were anti Temple, whose priests were of of the line of Abraham. Melchizedek was not of that line, so is the pure heavenly counterpart to the impure priests in Jerusalem.

And Hebrews 1 says Jesus was also a divine being, and Hebrews 9 says he sacrificed himself once, and once only, in a heavenly temple not made by human hands. and as Hebrews was written before the fictional gospels, it is very strong evidence the first Christians believed Jesus did not exist as a historical person.

I hope you feel better now you have a more credible answer.

Hebrews 5: 5, 6, 7, says:

"So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.”

6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”

7 During his life on earth,* Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."

Here in these texts it clearly shows that Christ is NOT God. Here, it clearly indicates that even in heaven, as these texts were written when Jesus was already in heaven with His Father, Jesus is the Son--again, even in heaven. (AND NOT PART OF A TRINITY).

It says: "Christ...was glorified by the One who said to him “YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER."

Here again it shows that the Bible does not agree with the Trinity doctrine, a man-made belief.