Why Jesus gave up and preferred to be crucified than to continue talking to people?

This question with all the additional details and then all these answers can be an eye opener! I can see and recognize the big mess humans have created and holding so tied on their infantile picture world, even though these include high pitched spiritual images... Indeed, Jesus had no chance that his message could have been understood in his days. Now in our days he would have better possibilities using a more sophisticated and Scientific expression, but even though I doubt that people living now would be more open for his intention to connect them with an other level and dimension. People now are too occupied with themselves and their goals or all their problems and are not capable to receive any help that requires their participation and self responsibility...

I guess who has a similar intention as Jesus to help humanity to get out of their illusions and self created fake reality, has to realize, that helping to advance the consciousness level of this world, will do so in the first place, by rising ones own level of being as part of the whole and then *beam* ones energy into this (mess) world and maybe better without using any words...

Foo

BeiYin "The 'personality' is not able to 'hear the real message' involved."

Very concisely stated BeiYin. This is the essential problem that prevents humans from awakening. People have no inkling of how blinded they are by their own mind. They are one with their mind, and everything they perceive is filtered through it. The truth is that they can't tap into anything that is real (beyond the mind). So back to your statement above. This is truth, and very clearly stated, and why they can't see it as that is because of the ever present mind-filter. Really you could just delete all these words in this thread and focus on that simple statement... But it needs more words, because one can't grok the notion of not being able to grasp this truth. I guess you speak, hoping that somehow with logic you can convince somebody that they are indeed blind, so that perhaps they will give up (shut up) or at least seriously question the possibility?

Okay, so more words...

Everything they hear or read, they just absorb into the existing mind structure, and it becomes part of an ever-expanding mind. Which of course is a main problem as the larger the mind gets, the more blind one is. A main reason why we act this way, is this activity is extremely satisfying to the mind identified individual, as they then feel like they are growing, learning and/or changing. Now it doesn't matter which path you are walking whether it be farmer, rich man or spiritual seeker, all are doing the same activity, it just has different flavors -- all are just as blind.

Of course once an individual desires to become spiritual, it doesn't mean the game is over, no indeed, it still goes on, and it even seems spiritual walkers are blinder than every day folk. I think because their concepts and beliefs become so sophisticated, and now they wear the cloak of being spiritual and somehow above others. I notice many spiritual people take genuine steps in realization, but very very few ever understand their own blindness and are able to set their mind fully aside and go beyond it, to fully awaken. Okay, so this happens because they become enamored with their new self-image of 'being spiritual' (which of course exists in the mind).

Now i ask any spiritual person reading here, what if you are fooling yourself, and it's not the real deal? Isn't your biggest interest in having the real thing, not a mind facsimile? Isn't it worth questioning yourself deeply to find out, and/or asking others who maybe know, to be sure? It really comes down to what is the most important and what do you have to lose or gain?

Then there is also the problem of not the understanding of what it means to give up, or to work at going beyond ones own mind. Many spiritual seekers like the idea that you don't have to do anything, and it will come in it's time. Just BE, Accept or Love is an often used concept these days. Yet they all are fooling themselves believing in their mind they are actually able to do that. The same can be said about followers of Christ in the Christian religion. If i do what it says, read the book, go to church, etc, then I will be saved. Of course 'these ideas' have a lot of appeal, I don't have to change in an essential way or do anything, it will just happen when it's time if i do these things. I guess a lot of people are holding out hope that at end of mayan calendar they will be miraculously changed in an instant. Okay, you do have to work at it, but it's not like the work you are used to doing, it's more of a non-doing kind of work. The best way i know to learn this work, is to do meditation regular twice per day, until you get what it means. You will get

what it means, not as a mental learning, but as truth that will shine through that in the moment that your mind truly goes quiet (when the blinders go down).

From the Gospel of St. Thomas - Jesus said - "I stood in the midst of the world and in the flesh I appeared to them. I found everyone drunk and none thirsty among them. My soul worries about the children of humanity because they are blind in their hearts and they do not see"

I think that he absolutely understood that his message was unheard as a whole. One can't blame him for not fighting the inevitable. I bet Jesus helped more individual people to see the light than any other spiritual leader, but his success in spirituality would not be known in his lifetime. Sadly, I think more damage has been done in Jesus' name than good. The Buddha also had great messages, except he was much more accepted and revered in his own lifetime than Jesus. And I don't think anyone was ever killed in the name of Buddha. Both had the right message, that the power to heal oneself, was within oneself. Kundalini Shakti, from the Hindu belief system, is another similar one. Actually, there are several, now that I think about it!!!

It all comes down to the individual having the power to change oneself. Its too bad that humanity gets too caught up in debating facts and supposed truths to hear the real message involved.

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Isnt personal interpretation necessary for ones own salvation? ('Salvation' is probably the wrong word, I meant to figure out what it means to actually be "real") Its been my experience that different individuals take different paths to the truth. The truth of themselves. Or "not" selves

You always seem so......... .... like you're shouting... I dont know, maybe thats just my interpretation of your words. .

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I think this question touches on the problem with religion. As

an established viewpoint, many folks see truth in feeling, and when they attend their churches and feel the comradery in the

church, this is seen as truth. Once truth is gained, they are willing to defend this truth without listening to reason, or being open to any other viewpoints. Even though they know, deep down, that it doesnt make any sense not to include and evaluate new incoming information.

Ysteban says "to ask oneself, can I really see, or do I really know anything" This is an essential question! Falling into the void of 'not knowing' can be a scary place for the individual, it breaks down the security barrier. I believe this barrier is put up mostly becuase of the threats that modern religion brings with it. Infinite punishment for finite sins! This concept is ridiculous, but with men of such power speaking this supposed truth with such conviction, could be convincing to the untrained truth seeker. Any power level greater than their own MUST be speaking truth! But no, this is not correct. People would rather feel like they know for sure, (even if its not truth) than feel like they are searching still. This constant state of search is what makes us human! Being stale in ones beliefs makes the mind stale, the body stale, and it then becomes an established follower of the establishment.

I also like what JustBe said about unfamiliar territory. it is this constant state that feels like growth to me. Never stop learning!

Understanding = standing under ..... pasquale garonfolo

Namaste!!

What shows clearly from all the answers to this question, - that every one is responding out of ones established mindset, may it be dominated or influenced by beliefs, all what is written are individual subjective interpretations from information that have been picked up from the common mindset. It is interesting to see how far this can go, even up to the highest spiritual concepts that might be confirmed by real personal experiences or the other way around... what means the concept is formed by talking about the spiritual experience and then is integrated in the mindset of others, - without any realization. That obviously happened with Jesus' teachings and when Jesus realized this, then he might have felt his intention as hopeless and senseless. People and the system as a whole just used his message for their games like every thing else: Personalities used it to blow up themselves and the established power system to manipulate people and keep them in dependency. - Using the trick to make an idol out of Jesus, that then ordinary people could admire and so exclude their responsibility and with this inhibit their growing. Well, I don't know if certain people interested in it were 'making' it, because the usual human 'slave mentality' goes easily into the trap of just doing what they are told and then of course this is used by clever people to manipulate the mass...

The serious and sad thing is, that by putting Jesus and his teaching into a 'spiritual box' high up on a pedestal, takes away any possibility to find truth in his teachings that could be integrated in ones daily life, so that a normal human being could transform oneself in ordinary life circumstances and realize a state of being that goes beyond limitations and boundaries of ones personality.

Isn't it astonishing that with our modern critical and scientific thinking capabilities, nobody looked into the background of Jesus personal history and so could explain the psychological process Jesus went through, demonstrating that he was a normal human being with the same abilities as every body and that his difficulties when he was growing up, had brought him into a growing process in that his consciousness expanded far above other people and he had insights that he wanted to share and express. Out of *love*, because this is part of the result of ones *growing* in an advanced state, what of course has little or nothing to do with the concept of love we carry in our mindset and that has become so limited to sex, feelings and as part of the common picture world, that it seems to be out of reach for us. What a fake reality we have created! And how stuck we are in it!

Now what?

There is no doubt that each of us and humanity as a whole is in a one-way-street without exit. There is information and advice available to get out of our straitjacket of personality with ones narrow mindset, but who is questioning oneself? Who is asking questions out of an openness to receive an answer? Who is really open not only to accept an answer that fits into ones concept collection, but that goes beyond?

When you are living your life authentically as a spiritually realized being, you are living life on the edge of the unknown, which is unfolding in the present moment. You have dropped all notion of what you are trying to do, have given up all goals, because you know that no idea you have can ever match exactly what is being created in the present moment. This is because creation is continually unfolding, everything is new in the present moment. You find out when you are trying to make a difference or change things as part of your vision, the result inevitably ends up with you being disappointed. You also never get your satisfaction

and contentment out of life, from what others give you back. (You want others to realize the truth). You no longer need anyone to be interested in you, or what you have to say, even if your message is the most

important one that all humans need to hear. You know you can't do anything about it. You know the most you can do is to stay aware and present in each moment the best you are able to do. No matter what unfolds, your work is to totally accept what it is. The more you dislike it, the more you have to work to find out where is your resistance to accept the current reality. It's all about not putting up any fight at all to what is. Anytime there is resistance, it can be seen that 'ego' is and 'spirit' is not. You are only one with spirit

when you are totally quiet inside. There is nothing higher you can do, than to live as closely as you can with the spirit that is continuously creating and unfolding in the present moment. To be clear, I am NOT saying you don't have to do anything! Rather I am talking about the quality of your doing. Are you going with the flow that is simply unfolding, being totally still inside = nonresistant and totally adaptable or are you rather following your own notions of how things should be? This is a skill we all need lots of practice with and can be a lifelong learning. I think knowing this truth of 'how best to walk' and working with this skill is the most effective thing we can do to help change others. The more we express ourselves out of the unfolding happenings, the more truth we express. That truth goes on to change other generations, even after we are gone from the earth.

I don't see that Jesus gave up or thought very much about it, rather his life was like it was, due to his ability to respond to whatever presented in a non-resistant way. He was just walking in the times of those days.

Betsy

Let's begin with the premise that Jesus was an enlightened master, ie. one who knows past, present and future. So he must have known that they were going to crucify him and that he was indeed going to be crucified. Your question, if I get it right, is why did he allow it to happen. After all, he is the son of God, the only begotten son of God. God would have saved him, would he not? If only Jesus had implored upon God to save him. So the question is, did he? Seems like he did. I read somewhere, as Jesus was being crucified he uttered, "God, why did thou forsake me?" He was questioning God. Can you beat that? He wouldn't have done so if he had never asked God to save him in the first place. Can you imagine God forsaking Jesus? It doesn't make sense, not to me anyway. So I believe it must have been predestined, that Jesus will come, that he will spread the Word, that some people will listen and many won't, that the priests will be offended, they will feel threatened by this man whose teachings will put paid to their way of life, that they will garner support and crucify Jesus, and then some miracles will follow and people will realise what a great wrong they have done and that from there on the disciples will take over and continue the mission. People will then start listening and Christianity will take root and flourish. I believe that Jesus knew that the only way to get people to listen was to let the priests crucify him. He was going against the Establishment of those days. No matter how wrong it may have been, the Establishment would not let anyone crumble it, even Jesus himself. Jesus must have known that the priests would get him. He could have simply run away and established base somewhere else. But he didn't. Why? Because he knew that the only way to open people's eyes was to let the priests crucify him as was the norm in those days. He wanted to die a normal death so that the people would understand what he was trying to say. He had to let people see, 'Look everyone, I am dying for you, not for me. I am the son of God, nobody can kill me if I will it. I am washing away your sins. I am making you a promise. Whosoever believes in me, he too shall never perish.' Sorry, I don't know whether this is philosophy or religion. It is simply my opinion based on my understanding from what little I have read, heard and seen. By the way, I am not a Christian. Merry Christmas.

Seems to me you're portraying a sort of 'suicide by cop' scenario for a man of vision realizing his vision can't be fulfilled. I have a few problems with that. The first is that the person described hand-me-down in the first four gospels and what he appears to have attempted to communicate don't have much to do with any realizations of failure he might have had. There's nothing in the texts suggesting Jesus was attempting to create a religious cult, and it's a long way from being clear what he actually did have in mind. When John the Baptist asked him, "Are you the One?" he essentially replied, "What the hell do YOU think?"

Jesus the man certainly had no way of knowing Saul of Tarsus [Paul] whom he'd never met would experience something on the road to Damascus to motivate him to create a cult of personality around the man Jesus that would last 2000 years. But without Saul's organizational skills the entire Christianity phenomenon would have been an isolated incident in ancient Hebrew lands confined to Jews and diasporaed with everything else the Jews took with them after the Romans squashed the rebellion and destroyed the Temple. A footnote in history, if that.

I'm not certain I understand what you were trying to say. I'd love to see the question condensed to a couple of paragraphs.

I can have no answer but the one he gave. His Father had a plan and as Jesus said if the Father would, to "take this cup from me -- but not my will, but Yours be done." Jesus also described it as a final test, not only that He (Jesus) would carry out the Father's will, but for we the creation to give the Creator His 'propers'. The son of the owner of a property came back, as if to collect the rent. The previous messengers were beaten, abused, or killed. Ah, but this is the son, the heir, 'if we kill him' then the property is theirs. Well, they killed him. In that fashion, we flunked. Each of us who refuse him, in that same fashion, also flunk the test. When the owner and maker of this world says so, He has the full right, even expectation, to evict us. In that way, like other like-minded people we will be bundled up and dumped in the trash heap, or as Jesus also described, to be burned as weeds, or gathered into "his barns". I would rather be a 'keeper' than trash, so I took Him up on his offer and trust for the best.

so basically your wondering if Jesus gave himself up because he was sick of telling people what they didn't want to hear?

Well, not really, because he did have followers and crowds of thousands came to see him, clearly his message was getting through to some of them and out of all the people he talked to some would have tried to change and everything. He didn't defend himself because he knew it was his time to go, hence the last supper where he said he would be betrayed, he knew he was going to be killed but accepted that because he knew it had to happen. That act is why there is around a billion people in the world who follow christianity, so actually, i'd say he was pretty effective at getting his message across, even after 2000 years.

I will answer the question not as Theologian but my personal point of view. Jesus preferred to be crucified because that was his mission. To teach humankind the value of sacrifice and that was his way

to save us from our sins. It was the will of the Father not His, remember the words when He said," Take this cup away from me but let your will and not mine be done...." He was so obedient to the Father to the point of death and without his death there would be no Resurrection which is a point in our Christian faith. Without Resurrection it would be empty to believe in Christianity so Jesus gave up his personal ambition to give way to the will of the Father. That was his mission in the first place.