Muslims, what do you think should be the government response if the Red Cross workers are murdered?

wicked: There is a major movement here to overthrow the Philippine Government supported financially and with weapons by Muslim nations here in Southeast Asia as well as the Middle East and believe it or not some groups from the USA (though those are slowly being shut down) and probably others. The MILF at one time had a fairly major shadow government here on Mindanao (in some areas it is still a problem). People literally in some regions had/have to answer to two governments the legally elected Philippine government as well as the illegal one that follows Islam. And just fyi, the local mosques support/agree with the actions of the illegal groups. Are you saying that many people and groups are just claiming to be Muslim but are just pretending in order to give Islam a bad name?

But back to the question. I always see Muslims protesting the government / military / police response to this type of alleged Fanatic Islamic aggression all around the world. So my question is what is a reasonable response for the government to do, which would be accepted by people that follow Islam that will not be protested?

Obviously the government cannot allow any of these groups to continue such barbaric actions.

So I am curious from the Islamic perspective what is an effective realistic response that would be acceptable to the majority of the worldwide Muslim community?

Shehi,

I have to wonder what sect of Islam you belong. For what you just said, as there is no one forcing you to say such things, according to what the groups seem to practice here in South East Asia, what you said would be haraam at the least and would likely cause you to be considered a kaafir. Worse you may very well be considered a Muslim denouncing his muslim brothers for following very clear rules if Islam.

What rules you ask?

The following is copied from:

Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219

(I have added *’s and []’s to highlight points)

Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced to convert to Islam, rather they are to be * given the choice between * becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah (tax showing submission to Islam).

Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah.

[you have to love the following rationale, they are not waging war to be terrorists they are doing it to make kuffaars (unbelievers, people that do not follow islam) happy.]

The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood.

Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.

[remember the Jew and Christians were to be given a choice, convert pay the tax submission, here is what happens if we refuse to do either.]

The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them (the Jews, Christians, etc) if they (Muslims) are able to do so, until they submit.

My first thought is that you might consider me an enemy and therefore the following applies:

Al-Nawawi said: “The scholars are agreed that it is permissible to deceive the kuffaar in war in any way possible.”

Thus making it acceptable to say most anything you want to get what you want.

In this case, however, even with that fatwa, to make a statement as you did I think violates:

Muslim Brothers and sisters rights also include: that you should not harm any of them in word or deed. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Muslim is the one from whose tongue and hand the Muslims are safe.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 10; Muslim, 40). And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, in a lengthy hadeeth in which he enjoined a number of virtues, “… If you cannot do that, then leave people alone (and do not offend them), for that is an act of charity that you do for yourself.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2382; Muslim, 84).

That act of charity that you do for yourself, means you can “potentially repent” of your words or you will be declared a kaafir and it will be assumed you turned your back on Islam. And the penalty for turning your back on Islam is:

If he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017.

There are of course some that would just assume you become a kaafir and for harming or speaking against other Muslims in such a manner means that they skip directly to part two.

Shehi, if you lived where I am located (as well as many other countries around the world) you would be taking a huge risk and putting your life (literally) in great danger for making such statements against “Muslim brothers” and “The traditional Muslim code of conduct”.

But that courage and the gumption to actually speak up and denounce the actions of the cowardly murdering terrorist, by every Muslim that truly believes such actions are wrong is exactly what is needed.

If every Muslim that truly believes in peace and equality for everyone, regardless of religion or nationality, speaks out against the terrorist every time a group does such things anywhere in the world, it will help stop the actions. If their support is cut, by turning them into the authorities, helping to cut their funding, condemning the mosques and religious leaders that support such actions, the groups will stop or at least slow down the barbaric actions. But it will have to be wide spread global condemnation of such actions by Muslims around the world.

Otherwise those of us outside of Islam, people as well as non-muslim governments, are left with no choice but to kill every last Muslim that carries out such barbaric and horrendous actions for the Islamic law such groups follow dictates that:

Whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, UNTIL they (kuffaars/non-muslim) either enter Islam or pay the jizyah.

That UNTIL means until everyone submits to Islam or until Muslims are no longer able fight. Like it or not, believe it or not, that IS the type of group we are fighting against.

However as negative as what I have said sounds and as impossible as it might seem to change the hearts of people.

The greatest of changes the world has experienced started with but a single person having the courage to speaking for what is right, regardless of the consequences.

May Lord and Savior Jesus Christ watch over you and your family.