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What is your opinion of the discovery of a cup/bowl with “Jesus The Magician” engraved on it?

The following is copied in part from an article by http://discovery.com/ found at:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/10/01/jesus-bow...

Oct. 1, 2008 -- A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that, according to an expert epigrapher, could be engraved with the world's first known reference to Christ.

If the word "Christ" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as is speculated, then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism at times intertwined in the ancient world.

The full engraving on the bowl reads, "DIA CHRSTOU O GOISTAIS," which has been interpreted by French epigrapher and professor emeritus Andre Bernand as meaning either, "by Christ the magician" or "the magician by Christ."

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I’ll give my opinion of the article just before I select best answer.

Update:

To make it easier to see the lettering on the cup/bowl a larger image is located here:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/10/01/jesus-bow...

Sorry for forgetting to include the link with the original question.

Update 2:

My personal opinion is going to take a bit of space to explain as it requires looking a little more closely at the lettering on the cup.

While my understanding of ancient Greek is rudimentary, I am seeing something far different than a simple misspelling.

If my understanding of Greek is correct, Christ (Christos) would be spelled:

Χριστός

Χ - chi

ρ - rho

ι - iota

σ - sigma

τ - tau

ό - omikron

ς - sigma

Update 3:

The lettering on the cup, to me, appears to read:

Χ - chi

ρ - rho

h - possibly a slightly misshapen eta (η) or lamda (λ ) or maybe eta with tonos (ή)

c - probably a slightly misshapen zeta (ζ)

( some might suggest a misshapen sigma (ς). However, there are two forms for the letter Sigma (ς, σ). When written at the end of a word it could look like the c (ς). If it occurs anywhere else, it would look more like the letter o: σ. Thus being in the middle of the word the “c” cannot be a sigma. Thus would most likely be a zeta.

τ - tau

ό - omikron

γ - gamma

Update 4:

To make the comparison a little easier:

Christ would be represented as:

Χ ρ ι σ τ ό ς

While the name on the cup seems to read:

Χ ρ h c τ ό γ

For anyone interested in seeing the full Greek alphabet you can refer to:

http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/alphabe...

http://www.geocities.com/hiera_mysteria/symboulos....

As I said I am by no means an expert of Ancient Greek language. However, unless I am over looking something in the lettering, while similar, the name appears to be something different than Christos.

A little like at first glance, to a person that is not familiar with our alphabet the names Timmy, Tommy, and Tammy would look nearly identical.

Update 5:

I hate to think discovery would make a mistake like what I am about to suggest.

But could this be a case of seeing what one wants to see rather than what is truly there? Could the translators have made the assumption that the odd lettering is a misspelling on the cup, rather than an intentional “unusual name” especially if the cup was meant as an “advertising” tool/gimmick? (Which seems very possible considering the message)

Could the experts, or the writers, have made the, very human, mistake of jumping to a conclusion by inserting ones own ideas and prejudices … simply assuming since the cup dated near the time of Jesus that the statement etched on the cup was meant as something referring to Our Lord and Savior?

While in reality it could be referring to anyone with the same/similar name/title.

Update 6:

Just something to think about.

7 Antworten

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  • John H
    Lv 4
    vor 1 Jahrzehnt
    Beste Antwort

    It doesn't mean much to me since Jesus never used the term "Christ" in the manner in which this "cup" presents it. Christ simply means "the Anointed One" more of a title than a name. Therefore one would not expect to see the "name" Christ used in this manner. Also, since it is Greek, one must first work through the Greek texts (non-Biblical) to see if the word appears as a name. Then, you have to somehow prove that the cup dates to the time frame of Jesus and that other extra-Biblical text show Jesus also used "Christ" as His name. Finally, can there be a chance of someone who was a magician that went by the name of "Christ the Magician" as a condemnation of Christianity?

    One last thing; whoever wrote on the cup was a poor speller. Christ does have the iota in it, but it is missing from the cup. (Χριστός (Christós)

  • vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    The name JESUS is much more popular and common that we realize ,In hebrew it is joshua which means Yahweh (is) salvation - In JESUS CHRISTs earthly ministry there were many who were named jesus one off the top of my head is barjesus a false prophet found in the company of the Proconsul Sergius Paulus by St. Paul and Barnabas during their stay at Paphos in Cyprus (Acts 8:6-12). Because of his opposition to the Proconsul's conversion to Christianity, Barjesus was struck blind by St. Paul. He was also called Elymos (Arabic, 'alim, i.e. "wise"), which St. Luke translated by "magician." (Acts 13:8).

    So as you see this is not a new incident nor does it have any connection with JESUS CHRIST son of the living GOD who payed the penalty for our sin upon the cross and gave us back the ability to commune with and be heard by a holy GOD .

    Joshua in the old testament is a "prefigure" of the incarnate CHRIST , his life is a reflection of the suffering and eventual triumph of the living CHRIST and gives us an understanding of JESUS the son of GOD .

    hope this helps.

    After looking at your question again i see your question was if this is proof that CHRISTianity and paganisim entertwined at times - yes in fact search in your browser for CHRISTIAN COPTS and you will find a rather diffrent understanding of CHRISTianity than is normally preached , if i remember correctly it is a combination of CHRISTianity and anchient egyptian belifes in its inital form anyway- really sorry i got off on a tangent there and missed the meaning of your question.

    Quelle(n): HOLY BIBLE
  • vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    This find like so many others only proves that the potter had the ability to follow a design or instructions, with no further significance to anything other than the potters ability.

  • vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    "then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism at times intertwined in the ancient world"

    Heh.. surprise? Of course it did, so many Christian customs have pagan roots, that shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who knows history.

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  • vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No different for the person who engraved that writing. He was entitled to his as well ! Doesn't mean he knew what he was talking about or that he was right....just that he had his own opinion.

  • Anonym
    vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    People will go to extreme lengths to get written about.

  • A1
    Lv 5
    vor 1 Jahrzehnt

    Look up project blubeam it talks about how things are getting discovered to frame religions that they are wrong when they are really right.

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