What do the right-wing neo-cons think about this quote by Ben Franklin?

How about actually reading the patriot act and understanding the content of it. You could start there instead of mindlessly spewing moveon rhetoric. It allows the unwarranted wire tapping of KNOWN suspects who have relations with KNOWN terrorist organizations and to that end it is only for INTERNATIONAL CALLS.

I find it HILARIOUS that you libs think that the tapping of KNOWN suspects is giving up anyones freedom... even a little bit. YET... you are all sorts of ready to give up your whole medical, personal and mental history to the government in the name of socialistic medicine. (universal health care for those that don't know what it really is.) Then you cry... "Tax the rich more and give more to those who didn't earn it" Yeah... don't give those that are successful the opportunity and FREEDOM to give to their fellow man on their own accord or how they see fit with what is rightfully theirs in this FREE nation.

Smell that? Awe... you guys are burning the hypocrisy again!

Edit... The guidelines are still persuant to those who are suspected and known targets. Which means there is an ongoing investigation into these people. They are not just picked out of the blue. Of course you also failed to address the fact that it applies to international calls, not domestic... so your grandma's secret recipe for cookies is quite safe. It allows to seek for a warrant after the fact because just in case you haven't noticed... we live in an age where technology moves fast. Disposable cell phones, ever hear of them? How stupid do you think the enemy is? How quickly can you get a warrant before they make that call and trash the phone? I guess 9/11 didn't effect you personally, but no, I don't believe in giving the advantage to known suspects.

I also noticed you failed to address all the other freedoms you so willingly give up. One by one. Universal health care, the right to bear arms, the right to gain employment based on skill... not quota's for your affirmative action, the right to free speech (your "fairness" doctrine), the right for parents to choose the school they wish to send their child to, and I am no smoker... but the right for a PRIVATE business to allow smoking on their premises and now it's the right for a restaraunt to cook using trans fat..... and the list goes on. So please.... yours is the party of the government care from the craddle to the grave, the party of "we know what is best for you and you don't". The party that is sprinting towards socialism as fast as it can. So give it a rest if we want to out smart those who wish ill will towards our country and its people, I'm OK with it. And just so you can "Bone" up on it...

http://www.cdt.org/security/usapatriot/20050401doj...

Section 201 & 202

Here you will see that the Patriot act did not change the guidelines of obtaining tha warrant... then, there were two amendments...

Terrorist Surveillance Act of 2006 - the President would be given certain additional limited statutory authority to conduct electronic surveillance of suspected terrorists in the United States subject to enhanced Congressional oversight.

Surveillence of who??? SUSPECTED TERRORISTS

Protect America Act of 2007

On July 28, 2007, President Bush called on Congress to pass legislation to reform the FISA in order to ease restrictions on surveillance of terrorist suspects where one party (or both parties) to the communication are located overseas.

Again... suspected terrorists where the communication begins or ends over seas.

Please do your own homework next time.

The phrase Neo Con is code for Jew who broke free of Jew guilt and doesn't see the leftist vision of Israel as the problem in the middle east. Edit: Easy, I can explain: Jews are successful, hard working people. The state of Israel is a thing of beauty, a tiny nation surrounded on all sides by brutal savages who want it destroyed and all of its citizens dead. In spite of this, the state of Isreal not only survives, but thrives. Bitter, angry defeatists throughout time have blamed the successful Jews for their own failures. A lot of Jew hate is a generational hand me down, dad hated Jews, Grandpa hated Jews, Great Grandpa hated Jews, and so on. That sums it up for me.

They believe that the only reason that a person would fear the goverment poking around in your personal life, is because you are doing something criminal.

But I'm here to tell you that a guy was busted out at a VA hospital in my area for only hiring people that agreed with his political preference. This was determined by how they voted during elections. How he got that info, I'll never know.

You don't have to be a criminal for things in your personal life to be used against you. that is 100% PURE FACT.

the Jews thought they didn't have anything to hide form the German government until Hitler decided they were a bunch of lazy squatters that didn't want to work. What? sounds familiar?

FISA was good enough to secure Americans, if anyone even attempted to use it prior to September 11th. Worked for Clinton to catch that guy in Vegas with the 6 vials of Anthrax he was planning to open on New Years eve dring the big New years eve bash in Vegas. But of course that probably didn't make national news because Clitnon admin wasn't about causing a panic. To some of us, it was local news.

That happens to be one of my favorite historical quotes and it is as true today as it was when Franklin said it, and so it has been since the dawn of Man. Only a coward or a fool gives up his liberty to a Government in exchange for pretended security. It is nothing but a scam to enslave the People.

By the way, I have no idea what the neo-cons think about it. I am a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-02-12...

Who are you calling a Neocon? I am all for civil liberties. I oppose oppressive taxes and oppressive laws from Left wing Liberals who line the pockets of unions and create job losses and poverty.

A Libertarian

http://www.tax-news.com/archive/story/Tax_Revenues...

High spending and the housing bubble ruined this.

Ben Franklin would never consider himself aligned with today's socialist liberal. He opposed oppressive taxes and big government.

Give the poor a job not a check!

Edit: I said he would never approve of this socialism that your party forces down our throats. You try to make a case that today's Liberal and Ben Franklin have something in common. I have more in common with Ben than you do.

Ben Franklin said that when the people find out that they can vote themselves the money in our treasury they will do so, thus bankrupting our nation. That is exactly what is happening.

I think to many Americans gave their lives for us to be free .For us to be imprisoned and victimized by our own government from with in .By stating its for our own good of national security .If our government wasn't corrupt meddling in other countries affairs .We wouldn't be threaten by everyone .If terrorists were such a threats that we lose our rights and privacy in our lives .Why isn't there a greater effort to secure the borders where a terrorist could just walk in to the country. Its not about foreign terrorist its about victimizing Americans by stealing our rights under the guise of security. I'd rather die free than live as a slave.Now there are 2 bills being passed Hr 1955 S1959 where they make it a crime for radical ideological thought subversive to government .Or trying to influence someone views against government .It called preventing domestic terrorism before the act . There are 43 detention camps completed across the country built by haliburton for fema .Who do you think they plan on putting in them. Do some research .The U.S. Gun Control Act of 1968 is copied word for word from the 1939 gun control law of Nazi Germany .Your not free because government says your free

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

Just curious what they have to say in the context of the so-called Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, etc.

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I believe that Ben Franklin was a man who tried to hold to what he felt was true and just for his years of living.

If you were to ask us (the people) to use those same words to describe what we are seeing or feeling about how our governemt is choosing to handle things then it would not necesarily fit.

Our government is running things behind the scense without anyone asking them to justify their actions on anything. I think that is too much power to leave in just one persons hands. To want our government to bring some order to what our country goes through, we need to expect some honesty and realism from our government officials first. I just dont see anyone stepping up to the plate anytime soon.

There are many reasons to think that we (the people) deserve our rights and freedoms that the men and woman of our military calibur have fought for and still continuing to fight for. What we have to ask ourselves is, are we living up to the full potential of American citizens who dont abuse others rights and freedoms?

Once we take the rights and freedom from those who are within our own country for selfish reasons that are not justisfied within moral standards then we dont deserve the rights and freedoms that we have for ourselves.

I dont expect everyone to understand my reasoning of answering this question that way that i have, yet those who truely read this message can see what is spoken and non-spoken speaks loudly.

Steph

I've always said that neo-cons would be howling mad if Clinton tried to assert the presidential powers that Bush has. And they are really going to be mad if Hillary makes it to the White House and has ALL of the powers Bush claimed in her arsenal. Maybe Obama would give back the powers stolen by Bush, but I wouldn't be my life on it. Would you?

I don't understand why so many of us are willing to just give up freedoms because if you're "not doing anything wrong" then why worry about it. They don't realize that is how it starts, then something you said in a phone call is suddenly illegal and then you're in trouble. I don't like what is happening, I want something done about it but on a personal level all you can do is protest and vote.

I am saddened by this wholesale "if you don't like it leave" attitude. I was in the military, we always said, I don't agree with what you're saying, but I'll fight for your right to say it.

If you can't see your freedoms slipping away from you, then you're not paying attention.

Edit: Early in George Bush's presidency, Secret Service went to a woman's house because she was turned in as a subversive. Turns out she had a "Buck Bush" poster on her wall. She did nothing wrong, but who needs Secret Service in their house, threatening their kids because they don't agree with the government.

They continue to amaze me. I keep hearing them tell me that THEY'RE not giving up any liberties! They're just letting the government take away the liberties of the terrorists!

They don't seem to understand that they've allowed this administration to not only "tap first, get a warrant later" like the old FISA law allowed, but because that was "inconvenient" the neocons want it changed to "tap first, never bother with a warrant".

They don't seem to understand that they've allowed this admininstration to become the sole "decider" of who is and who is not an "enemy combatant", and have allowed the administration to eliminate ALL the Constitutional rights of anyone they choose to decree to be an "enemy combatant".

They don't seem to realize that they've also allowed this administration to just pick up anyone they've declared to be an "enemy combatant" and hold them indefinately, without charges, without evidence, without a lawyer and without ANY contact with the outside world.

They don't seem to realize that while "enemy combatants" today might only be brown-skinned men who pray to Allah, tomorrow it could be white-skinned men of Jewish decent, next week it could be Catholics of Irish decent and the week after that it could be anyone who's left-handed or wears glasses.

And, they don't seem to realize that by giving the current President these broad, sweeping powers to ignore the Constitution, they've given the NEXT President those powers as well. Who knows? Maybe the next President will declare the following as the new criteria for deciding who is an "enemy combatant": balding white men who never step outside of their houses without and American flag lapel pin, and country bumpkins that have never even read the Constitution, but always vote Republican.

I do think the patriot act is a slippery slope but I don't think it has gone too far yet.

You are right to be skeptical of the government because they are addicted to power.

But I don't fall in with the "Neo" conservatives, I am more of a Libertarian.